also, i need to get in touch with eric re. integrating the gthla content. there are two options here. first, i could just embed the gthla site within the haa site (in the gthla section, of course) -- this might be the thing to do at first while eric is working on his end. the next step would be to either redesign eric's site so that it "matches" the haa site, or to get eric to syndicate his site, which basically means that he would "broadcast" his data such that hockeyaa.net could receive it and display it on the appropriate pages. anyway, if you've got his phone number, send it to me (i think you already have but i can't find it).
talk soon,
jeff
hi tom,
okay:
a couple more questions to iron things out, then we can get going (send me the server info whenever you're ready).
on members: what are the "benefits of membership" as you see them?
here's my basic list:
-in the FORUMS, members can post and participate in discussions.
-members of a certain level can set up sign up sheets -members of a certain level can post news -all members can have a basic web page with which to toot their horn
anything else, beyond what you noted in your email?
as for a step-by-step of the site's construction, i see it unfolding this way:
phase 1
-basic infrastructure
-setup of news system w/rss feed
-score display system
-site-wide graphic design templates
-HAA info-related pages (about, contact, etc)
-design of sidebar for HAA affiliates
-design of rss feed module for HAA affiliates
-mailing list signup
phase 2
-gallery systems & rss feed for them
-installation and design of forum
-creation of shinny sign-up system
-wiki (see below)
these two phases will take me about 7 or 8 days (10 with the wiki
installation). that leaves around 2 or 3 days to do anything else (er,
or none if the wiki gets put up there). let's take it to this stage,
then you can see what it's capable of. it's not the "myspace for
hockey-playing artists", but it is still a robust system that will be
easily run by a community. the job will be too large in the current
budget constraints if we go much beyond these parameters. my suggestion
is to forego the idea of making the membership profile thing a platform
for publishing and instead install a wiki that all can access. like
wikipedia, it will grow with the interest of the community, instead of
being a work-intensive process that a vetted membership-based system
would entail. if we implement up to phase 2, anyone who wants to post
news or upload images or otherwise participate in the content end of the
(non-wiki) site can be granted easily by you or any other admin (indeed,
admin access can similarly be easily granted).
jeff
Tom Goodwin wrote:
> Hey Jeff,
>
We just need to define things
> more:
>
> Re: Members:
> A member would have to be a player that's affiliated to a team or league
> that is associated to HAA. I'd like to let none players get involved too,
> but they would have to be sponsored by a member player. That member is more
> of just a social member. So that's 2 distinctions there. I'll start making a
> list of different distinctions I can see in membership. I'm sure this will
> evolve as the logistics become more apparent.
>
> People should be able to surf in and join temporarily until we can verify
> who they are. After they are verified, they become legit members.
>
> General Member: Hockey Player involved with team or league that is a member
> of the HAA
> "Friend of HAA" Member: Someone who isn't a player involved with an
> associated team or league, but wants to be involved with the community and
> social aspects of the HAA. The member can only join if they are sponsored by
> a general member.
> General Manager or Team Rep. Member: Person who coordinates a team
> associated to the HAA
> Admin: Me and you, the designer
> Admin Assistance: Whoever I authorize to help manage the website. We'll
> probably have separate people managing different sections of the site
>
> I want to create different mailing lists. I.e. one for all the members which
> we can mail general stuff to like the newsletter and specific ones for
> specific topics that only concern specific members.
>
> Membership Access in each section:
>
> Homepage: This should only be admin access. We just need to program how the
> content will be presented and where it will be sourced from.
>
> Gallery, Discussion Board & Calendar: This would have the three levels you
> talked about which are basically Admin, Admin Assistance & the rest of the
> members.
>
> News: I see this as a bit more restrictive. I see the same 3 levels but
> instead of the full membership being able to have post only access, it
> should be just the general managers and approved agents (team Rep. or
> someone supervising players associated in a league not involved with a
> team).
>
> There are player profiles in Eric Dawson's software. They might be able to
> fulfill everything I'm looking for. We would just hyperlink membership
> details from the stuff we're setting-up to the profiles in Eric's software.
>
> http://goodtimes.exclaimhockey.ca/schedules.cfm?fo=stats&method=playerstats&
> Scheduleid=33&TeamID=988&team=Morningstars&playerid=7689
>
> Eric's form would have to be modified. If this can't be made compatible then
> the Myspace route sounds like a good idea.
>
> With Gallery audio posting, there might be potential to work with
> Zunior.com. They're friends and they are in the digital music business. I'd
> only suggest this if it was easier than setting up our own framework.
>
> The sign up sheets on the discussion board are important. We will be
> managing more pick-up games this winter and managing the list through group
> emailing is only effective if the person in charge of the list is available
> to keep everyone up to speed on its development. If the list is posted on
> the website then everyone can see the development and not have to wait for
> whoever is in charge of the list to update it. We've tried to make this work
> in the regular discussion framework with an initial posting and people
> replying to the post but too often a silly discussion develops under it and
> a clear list doesn't develop, also not all our members have embraced the
> discussion board yet for various reasons. This should be like evite. Yes,
> no, maybe replies. Maybe doing this through evite is the answer. I don't
> know. For a pick-up game there is a cap and we would take the 1st 20
> sign-ups and then any yeses after that would be on a waiting list and would
> be put on the list if anyone pulls out. One thing about doin this through
> evite is we need to keep track of who's signing up in relation to the
> member's profile. People will be paying for pick-up games in advance and we
> need to keep track of who signs up and who shows up.
>
> We could do the banner advertising through Eric. As long as we set-up the
> same dimension space for it.
>
> These are some of my ideas. What are the different stages of construction?
> What time frame do you think? Please let me know what needs more clarity. I'm into developing the myspace
> idea as an addition if it will really enhance the content of the website and
> the members use it.
>
> Tom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Watson [mailto:manderbee@gmail.com]
> Sent: June 20, 2006 1:28 AM
> To: Tom Goodwin
> Subject: Re: Hockey website
>
> Hey Tom,
>
Notes interspersed throughout:
>
> Tom Goodwin wrote:
>
>> Hey Jeff,
>>
>> I got all the Canaca details. Please call me when you get a chance.
>>
>> I have to admit that I'm a bit nervous about a few things. I'm worried
>> that with things still being conceptual that we might have some
>> miscommunications of what are expectations are. It would be regretful
>> if you spent time constructing stuff that we weren't able to find
>> useful and it would also be regretful if we paid you for putting the
>> stuff together that we don't want or need. Can we put together a
>> process that will prevent us from getting off track with the
>> development of the site?
>>
>>
> Yeah, I think this is a good start for that. Read over my notes and then
> fire back an email.
>
>
>> Too clarify as much as I can, here are some more detailed things I
>> want out of the website.
>>
>> 1. I want the website to be member driven as much as possible.
>> 1. We'll need to manage the membership
>>
>> i. Need a form to join
>>
>> 1. The application form should be approved by the site administrator
>> before the person becomes a member.
>>
>> 2. Need to be able to change the form structure as details needed or
>> not needed evolve
>>
>> ii. Profile page for each member
>>
>> 1. Which we can hyper link to their profile in league and tournament sites
>>
>> iii. We'll need a page where all the individual members are listed in
>> case a member forgets their login ID. With that they could get
>> correspondence to them if they forgot their password, as well.
>>
>> 2. The administrator should be able to give each individual
>> member different levels of access throughout the site
>> depending on their involvement with the Association. This
>> would probably be used the most on the discussion board
>> regarding exclusive forums.
>> 3. We'll need group email list generated to email notices
>> like the newsletter to all the members or a new discussion
>> board forum and/or posting that specific members should be
>> notified about.
>> 4. We should be able to have "friends of" members too. People
>> who aren't necessarily involved in the hockey but want to
>> be involved with the community.
>>
>>
> Okay:
>
> Members:
>
> What do you mean by member here? Can anyone who just surfs to the site
> become one, or do you have to be a player on a team in a HAA affiliate
> league to join?
>
> Membership levels:
>
> There are many different possibilities here. Let's get super clear on them.
>
> The first kind of membership that comes to mind is forum-posting
> membership. Two basic levels here, member and admin. Admins can edit or
> remove posts and create categories. Members can create threads and
> individual posts within categories, and can edit their own posts. That's
> for the forum, which is typically a separate part of the site.
>
> The next kind of membership is the kind that can post information on the
> main site. News, announcements, that sort of thing. These members can
> have varying degrees of access. I would suggest three levels: a
> post-only (and edit your own posts); a post and edit all posts level;
> and a posting/editing/template designing level (ie, a level that allows
> the most complete access possible, FTP, etc).
>
> Now, most forum software platforms come built-in with membership
> management systems. Basically, in order to post to a message board, you
> have to join, and that makes you a member and gives you a little forum
> profile page and the opportunity to upload an image of yourself or
> whatever. I'm thinking that you want a more complex individual profile
> page, and so I would suggest that we just let the forum work the way
> forums do and keep that whole membership system separate from the
> official HAA membership system.
>
> Thinking about this some more, I'm realizing that you basically want to
> create MySpace for hockey playing artists. This is not a small task.
> This one component alone could take weeks (ie, more money). Let's talk
> about this. Specifically, let's talk about exactly what a member is and
> how you envision them joining (ie, what's in it for them).
>
> Also, let's talk about maybe just throwing a wiki up there to handle the
> bulk of this kind of stuff. That's a relatively easy installation.
>
>
>> 2.
>>
>>
>> 2. This website should be interactive with all the associated
>> websites (leagues, tournaments, teams etc...)
>> 1. We need to construct a menu bar which we can unobtrusively
>> embedded in the associated websites. Hopefully one we can
>> adjust the colour, font etc... so it blends in well with
>> the website we're putting it in.
>> 2. I see the embedded menu having a title reading "Hockey
>> Association of the Arts" possibly with a logo and these
>> options below: Home, News, Background, Gallery, Discussion
>> Board, Calendar and Merchandise. I was thinking all we
>> needed was the title and logo to embed as a link, but
>> having a few options below helps lead the user to the site
>> by showing them some of the content that is available on
>> our site.
>>
>>
> Easy, no probs, no hassles.
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 3. On the Home page we should add theses options on the same menu
>> we're embedding elsewhere: Membership and Feedback.
>> 1. The content of the homepage should have:
>>
>> i. lead ins of the latest postings on the News page.
>>
>> ii. Latest gallery posting and more popular posting.
>>
>> iii. Upcoming Arts & social events and hockey games from the Calendar
>>
>> iv. Latest game scores; maybe a team ranking of the least penalized
>> teams in the country
>>
>> 2. This stuff should self generate from the sources.
>>
>>
> Yup, easy, fun and simple...
>
>> 2.
>>
>>
>> 4. The Gallery should be a forum where the members can post multi
>> media creations
>> 1. Photos, visuals, video, audio, stories, poetry etc... can be
>> posted
>> 2. Recommended links from the members of other interesting
>> multi media posting they found interesting on the web.
>> 3. I want to start putting together a podcast which can be
>> accessed and subscribed to from here (or/and maybe
>> accessed from the news and home pages too)
>>
>>
> Photos, video and audio should be done through third-party systems. Why
> set up our own flickr app when flickr does it so well? Similarly, use
> YouTube for video. We create accounts for HAA at both of these sites,
> then grant access to members. The only media we should host ourselves
> would be audio, and that could be easily integrated into the content
> management system. Some of this depends on the member issues that I
> brought up above, so let's talk some more. Stories and poetry obviously
> easy. The podcast is a great idea and I agree that if it exists it
> should be advertised on the main page/sidebar.
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 5. The Discussion board is member driven discussion
>> 1. Springboard from the ezboard discussion board the league
>> already has. http://p206.ezboard.com/bgoodtimeshockey.
>> 2. We need to be able to set up private forums that only
>> smaller groups of the membership can access. For instance
>> a general managers' forum or specific committee forums.
>> 3. We need to be able to set up sign up sheets for things
>> like pick up games. Lists where members can post there
>> name and remove it if they need to.
>>
>>
> Sure. The sign up sheets application could be too much for the time
> constraints. That's a whole new application I'd have to code somehow.
> But it could be done, depending on its priority. My two cents is that
> pickup games are probably best served here by a forum post with an
> "email me if you're interested" message from whoever's coordinating.
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 6. We need a common spot on every page we can run rotating .gif
>> advertising. It would be ideal if it had the same dimensions as
>> the banner ads from the league website.
>> 1. The administrator needs to be able to add, de-activate and
>> delete .gifs from the library.
>> 2. We also need running stats on impressions and clicks each
>> .gif gets while in rotation.
>>
>>
> Yes, and this is something that only the highest level admins can
> modify. The click/view counter is tricky, but doable. It's actually
> something that we might have to shell out 20 bucks to buy some software
> to run.
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 7. The Calendar page should be a spot where members can post any:
>> 1. upcoming Arts activities they are involved in or Arts
>> events that they want to recommend to the membership.
>> 2. Upcoming hockey game schedule
>> 3. Membership social events which are coming up.
>>
>>
> Yup, easy. But again, let's clarify members here -- can just anyone who
> has a profile page post anything? How is that different from a forum? Or
> maybe we're talking about a wiki? My initial impression was that only
> team organizers could post this kind of stuff.
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 8. The Merch page can just be a link to a page that imwithstupid.ca
>> will setup with our merch. We'll have to embed our menu in this
>> portion of the site so users can easily link back.
>>
>>
> Yup. Most of this kind of stuff I've already done.
>
>> 8.
>>
>>
>> 9. The news page will contain:
>> 1. our newsletters
>> 2. Latest game scores with game reports. More of an extensive
>> list than is on the home page.
>> 3. Members can post announcements here like births,
>> engagements etc... This should probably be the source of
>> info for future newsletters. Members can post all their
>> news here and periodically we'll send out a newsletter of
>> the best and most relevant member postings.
>> 4. We can also post news on new sponsors joining or new
>> leagues and tournaments joining etc...
>> 5. We'll eventually have a managing editor for this page to
>> help generate more content, if needed in association with
>> the program magazine we put together
>>
>>
> Easiest part.
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 10. The Feed back page would be a place where people can send us
>> feedback on the site or association, be it a bug or suggestion
>> on how we could better work something.
>> 1. We'll also have specific contact info here
>>
>>
> The proverbial "contact" page...
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 11. The background page will be straight up text with illustration
>> on the history and philosophy of the association.
>> 1. We'll probably hi-light links that are relevant to the
>> content of this page.
>>
>>
> No prob.
>
>> 1.
>>
>>
>> 12. I also want to put together a page that is an electronic
>> presentation to potential sponsors and an electronic press kit.
>>
>>
> Separate project, but a place for it would be easy enough.
>
>> 12.
>>
>>
>> 13. Once it's finished this should all be relatively easy for the
>> administrator to administer. We need you available to us to get a
>> complete handle on the administration.
>>
>>
> That's the goal. Except for the "MySpace for hockey playing artists"
> part, it's going to be eminently doable.
>
>> *Embedded Menu:*
>>
>> Hockey Association of the Arts
>>
>> Home
>>
>> News
>>
>> Background
>>
>> Gallery
>>
>> Discussion Board
>>
>> Calendar
>>
>> Merchandise
>>
>> *Website menu:*
>>
>> Home
>>
>> News
>>
>> Background
>>
>> Gallery
>>
>> Discussion Board
>>
>> Calendar
>>
>> Merchandise
>>
>> Membership
>>
>> Feedback
>>
>>
> Got it.
>
>> If it's easier to set stages on this, please let me know. What are
>> your time-frame goals in completing all or parts of this? I should be
>> able to tell you how much money we currently can afford to throw your
>> way. I'm looking forward to your phone call!
>>
>>
> Once we suss out the specifics about the membership thing (what is a
> member, what do you want them to be able to do, etc), and whether or not
> you want to incorporate essentially a wiki into the whole thing, I
> should be able to figure out an exact delivery date. Ballpark for a site
> that can be run by a community of admins and a forum that can be free to
> all who wish to join is the end of this month. The more MySpace-like the
> membership aspect gets, the longer it's all going to take.
>
> Talk soon,
>
> Jeff
>
>> Talk Soon,
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Good Times Hockey League of the Arts
>>
>> www.goodtimes.exclaimhockey.ca
>>
>> Exclaim! Hockey Summit of the Arts
>>
>> www.exclaimhockey.ca
>>
>>
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